http://www.indy.com/posts/7909 en-us Jet Who cares if it's a gay bar? I spent my 20's in gay bars because the music was better, and the men could dance. None of that white boy shuffle stuff. I was asked to dance so often that I had to pass just so I could catch my breath! Any way, fried pickles? They have fried pickles? Oh man. I'm there already. Mon, 19 May 2008 01:27:19 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22511 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22511 joe.shearer Actually I said it wasn't journalistically necessary, which is an important disctinction. To say it isn't "appropriate" suggests it would be wrong to do it. To say it's not "necessary" just states it's not needed. Taffy made that decision in his review and that's fine, but Kate obviously didn't see the need for it. I don't specifically recall Taffy's review of that bar, so I don't want to comment specifically on it. I'm sure he handled it appropriately. Kate obviously didn't think it necessary enough to mention in the article, so she didn't, and I don't have a problem with it. Furthermore, you could argue that "2 for $20" isn't technically a review, given the gimmick of being a story about feeding two people lunch for under $20. While there are aspects of its quality discussed, there are other things going on there too. But either way, I agree with others who don't believe it appropriate to be called a name simply because she left out a detail that she deemed unnecessary to her piece. EDIT: Here is the actual sentence I wrote: "I don't think journalistically speaking there's any reason for labelling something as "a gay bar." So I didn't use the word "necessary," but I think that's definitely the connotation there. I certainly didn't say "appropriate," just for full disclosure. Thu, 15 May 2008 14:18:21 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22388 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22388 Dexter Where would you draw the line though? How many subjects is a reviewer responsible to cover? Would they have to warn us if there were a large number of obese people that frequented a restaurant for luch. Some people may choose to avoid seeing obese people. Perhaps they should say if a restaurant's clientele are mostly white so that non-white readers can decide if they would feel comfortable there. The whole thing seems insane. People need to take personal responsibility for the choices they make. If a reviewer chooses to share information, then they should be thanked and not criticized. It's impossible to determine what each and every reader may or may not find relevant. Thu, 15 May 2008 14:08:40 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22386 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22386 Jolene.Ketzenberger A restaurant reviewer has a responsibility to inform the reader about a restaurant's food, service, atmosphere and anything else that seems significant. There's no reason to tiptoe around any of those topics, including comment on the typical clientele. If a restaurant draws a particular crowd, that's pertinent information a reader can use. Whether a place attracts business suits, factory types, ladies who lunch, Colts fans, moms with kids, retirees, college kids, it's relevant information. So tell readers that. It's not offensive to say that a restaurant is popular among the gay community, just as there's nothing wrong with saying that a place is popular with political types or with artists or bikers or whomever. And if a place attracts one type of customer at lunch but a different type at dinner, that's relevant information too -- information that helps a reader make an informed decision about where to go. Thu, 15 May 2008 13:54:10 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22383 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22383 xanax15mg but joe's defense of you was predicated on the premise that it wasn't "journalistically" appropriate to mention it was a gay bar in a food review-- so why is it appropriate to mention it in a review of karaoke bars? and considering the tagging issue-- my original point is that I would gather a majority of people (myself included) first saw the Ivy's review in the paper, not online, so what use is the tagging? Wed, 14 May 2008 15:18:15 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22337 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22337 Kate Johnson KATE RETURNS TO THE CONVERSATION! Xanax: There are zero tags in print because...that makes no sense. We tag things here so they're easily searchable through the site. And, yes, Taffy's one-sentence mention of the nightlife at Varsity Lounge did mention it is known as a gay bar. In my opinion, the nighttime crowd differs from a lunchtime crowd. Joe: You're my twit-defending hero. Good chat guys! Wed, 14 May 2008 11:35:07 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22324 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22324 xanax15mg also another note, the print version of the review isn't "tagged" gay friendly Mon, 12 May 2008 15:32:28 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22224 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22224 xanax15mg then how come when Taffy reviewed "Varsity" a few months back during a story on karaoke places in the city he referenced it as a gay bar? Was he not being correct "journalistically" based on your standards? Mon, 12 May 2008 15:27:14 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22223 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22223 Victory33 I don't feel she deserved the rude remark either, it was pretty uncalled for. Mon, 12 May 2008 15:12:12 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22222 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22222 GoddessBNL Man kate, why don't I ever get to go to the fun gay places? Boo. I always get pizza. Mon, 12 May 2008 14:59:38 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22221 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22221 Dexter Ultimately it's the consumers responsibility to research an establishment they choose to visit. Placing blame on someone who chooses to share their views because they didn't give enough information is wrong. Personal responsibility is a diminishing trait and xanax is just another example of those who are unable to forego excuses and take the blame where it's due. Mon, 12 May 2008 14:36:33 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22219 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22219 joe.shearer That's where Kate labelling it "gay friendly" would help out in that area. We can go on and on about being "PC" or about being fair, but I will give you the fact remains that some people are very uncomfortable in an environment like that, and to each his own. But Kate's responsibility as the author of the piece is to tell you how her experience was at the place within the constraints of the "Two for Twenty" framework rather than provide a demographic breakdown. I personally think that she did more than she needed to in order to satisfy the demands of the piece and her responsibility to the readers. I certainly don't think she deserved the "twit" that xanax lobbed at her. Mon, 12 May 2008 14:25:01 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22217 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22217 Victory33 I don't know, I kinda see both sides. While I don't know how any establishment gets labeled as a "gay" bar or if they even want to be labeled as that, it seems like more of a comfort issue. Some people don't like restaurants that allow smoking, so it's nice to mention that a bar might be smoky or smoke free, and in the same respect, some people don't like to be the only straight person in the bar...it might make them feel uncomfortable...similar to how someone who doesn't smoke might feel if they were surrounded by smokers. But it's a slippery slope, you can't go labeling things without some repercussions. I personally couldn't care less, but I can understand why that might be information some people would like beforehand. Mon, 12 May 2008 12:49:27 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22209 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22209 Dexter No one likes an eavesdropper. Mon, 12 May 2008 12:16:33 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22198 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22198 scully1212@yahoo.com Isn't this supposed to be ultimately about the food? Personally I don't hang out in "gay friendly" establishments on purpose (I'm one of those wacky conservatives) but if the food and service is decent who cares? Mon, 12 May 2008 11:16:35 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22196 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22196 joe.shearer Oh, it's important. Gay people will love the food, but it won't taste as good if you're straight. Or something. I think as long as there's no actual sex going on there, I don't think journalistically speaking there's any reason for labelling something as "a gay bar." Really, at what point is something a gay bar? Does there have to be a certain percentage of gay people there? Maybe it should say on the sign outside to prevent confusion. Mon, 12 May 2008 10:08:51 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22192 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22192 Drinky_McGee Yeah, I don't understand why that information would be pertinent. If there were Gay Cuisine, I could see the need to point it out. But I've never heard anyone answer the question "What do you feel like eating tonight?" with the answer, "I really have an urge for some Gay." And if someone who would be uncomfortable in a place like that were to end up there because of this review, well, that would just be funny. Mon, 12 May 2008 09:42:10 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22188 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22188 xanax15mg when i was having dinner there 2 saturdays ago the waiter asked the couple at the table next to us "have you ever been f----- so hard it was like being punched?" Maybe the conservative, Jesus-loving grannies in Indiana might like a heads up that sort of dinner time chit chat is not uncommon there. Mon, 12 May 2008 09:41:39 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22187 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22187 Kate Johnson I do not think it necessary to mention outright - the food is still the same. Albeit, it is tagged as gay friendly here and is mentioned as gay friendly in the bar profile as well. Thanks for reading! Yours truly, Twit Mon, 12 May 2008 09:31:09 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22183 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22183 xanax15mg how does this twit review this restaurant and not once mention it's a gay bar? Mon, 12 May 2008 09:26:00 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22182 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22182 taboo I have eaten at this establishment a number of times. The food is very good. But, the dining area tends to be a bit too smokey for my taste. I end up smelling like the Marlboro Man when I leave. Too bad for the non-smokers. Fri, 09 May 2008 10:53:35 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22095 http://www.indy.com/posts/7909#comment_22095