http://www.indy.com/posts/6320 en-us chrystyle Wow...That Mom Jara Clever With Powerful Words Maternal Poet Yeah...I finally made one! Do I need to put it to a beat and call ASCAP? LOL! I'm something like a local starving artist...I just don't practice my art. : ) Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:03:29 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_20107 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_20107 obeythedoberman this is the dumbest argument. the people who run Ice are obviously morons and they deserve to get sued. this is not something new. every business that plays music has to pay ASCAP/BMI/SESAC. it's the law. honestly, it's not that expensive. had they done what they were supposed to do they would've paid in the neighborhood of something around $5000/year for the rights to play whatever they want ($$$ are based on fire capacity). HOWEVER, many businesses elect to use music services that offer pre-programmed music (restaurants like Chili's, TGI Friday's, etc.) for monthly fees in the neighborhood of $40/month. "We pay the DJ's..." = "I'm too stupid to know how to run a business." and for the record, I think the whole thing is B.S. but it is the law. concert venues also have to pay into this. keep in mind, these restaurants/bars are not playing music by local artists. they're playing famous tracks. Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:28:09 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_19107 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_19107 MomJara Musicians covered by the banner of ASCAP Melodious thugs? Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:46:34 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_19097 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_19097 codajack If you join ASCAP as an artist(or BMI or SESAC: usually clubs are members of all three), you can get the royalty checks from playing these and other venue, even if you are a nobody like me with very limited radio and club play. Check out the ASCAP Plus program (http://www.ascap.com/ascapplus/index.aspx). You could easily net at least $300 if you register(free registration) and fill out a form with details of where and when YOU play your original music. Of course, the venues have to be members of ASCAP(or they soon WILL be ;) ). Yes, $300 may not be much, but its $300 I didn't have before - and its from writing and playing original music. And yes, from a certain standpoint, I suppose it is like joining the dark side of the force. Long live the Sith. Sun, 30 Mar 2008 01:07:44 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18962 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18962 Sweaty_B I'd wager that most wedding and reception halls have their ASCAP/BMI ducks in a row (I know mine did). Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:38:59 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18758 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18758 aLLENiMAGERY interesting... so... the DJ's are truly the ones who benefit the most right?? They buy (or download illegally) songs, then publically play them while cashing in for about $400-600 a night. hmmm... sounds fishy. so my new question is: since ASCAP claims to be all about getting their artists paid, will they soon become the Wedding Crashers? Knocking down cakes demanding that brand new brides and grooms owe them for songs played during the reception?? It's a valid question if we're saying that the music creates the mood........ Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:07:09 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18753 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18753 Sweaty_B He may not control what they play, but they host the events and profit in part from the atmosphere created by that music. The DJ or musician is just an employee/contractor for the night. They shouldn't be liable for those fees any more than they are for the electricty or water used. Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:50:42 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18747 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18747 David Lindquist Here's an update to the Ice Ultra Lounge case that appeared in today's edition of The Star: Ice Ultra Lounge, 235 S. Meridian St., is the target of a lawsuit that alleges the upscale nightclub lacks a license to play hit songs by Ludacris, Led Zeppelin and other musicians. The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers accused Ice Ultra Lounge and 28 other nightclubs, bars and restaurants of copyright infringement in U.S. District Court cases filed Monday in 22 states and the District of Columbia. Commonly referred to as ASCAP, the society of composers, authors and publishers collects royalty fees and distributes money to songwriters. Vincent Candilora, ASCAP's senior vice president of licensing, said the performing-rights organization contacted the owners of Ice Ultra Lounge more than 20 times, beginning in February 2005, with instructions to purchase an ASCAP license that applies to recorded and live music. The annual fee would be $6,500. The lawsuit lists seven copyright-protected songs -- ranging from 50 Cent's "Candy Shop" to Billy Squier's "The Stroke" -- that independent investigators say they heard during visits to Ice Ultra Lounge last April and September. The suit seeks damages of $750 to $30,000 per song, plus court fees. Candilora said litigation is "a last resort" for his organization. "(Ice Ultra Lounge) is using someone else's property," he said. "Like any other property law, you need to get permission from the person who owns that property to use it, and you have to pay them something." Mays Chemical CEO Bill Mays, an investor in Ice Ultra Lounge, said he expects the nightclub will settle the complaint out of court, but he raised objections to ASCAP's licensing formula and the burden of paying songwriters. ASCAP determines a license by a venue's capacity. One thousand customers is the multiplier for the three-story Ice Ultra Lounge, but Mays said it's rare for that many people to be in the club. Noting that he's not involved in day-to-day operations of the club, Mays said he believes musicians and DJs should pay royalties to songwriters. "We pay the DJs," he said. "We don't control what they play." Ken Thorpe, who runs the club on a day-to-day basis, could not be reached for comment. Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:53:57 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18682 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18682 landlocked not to fully defend ASCAP/BMI, but they have existed nearly 100 years and represent hundreds of thousands of songwriters. this isnt some new entity trying to cash in. Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:06:26 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18571 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18571 mbnjmntrb here is someone living in Contemporary times that doesn't care. Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:56:15 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18568 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18568 Ben Neff Here's an FAQ page from ASCAP's website answering questions about playing music in public: ASCAP Licensing: Frequently Asked Questions Here's an informative article about Creative Commons licenses and ASCAP's misunderstandings about them: Commons Misunderstandings- ASCAP on Creative Commons And here's a fairly thorough article covering a similar situation in Seattle last year: Music suit creates discord Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:01:29 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18475 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18475 Drinky_McGee So, YOU'RE the one. See, I didn't book cover bands in the place I worked for, but on the off chance that one of the bands we had threw in a cover or two during a set (and most do), we had to pay. Under those circumstances, it's just silly. Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:02:35 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18469 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18469 TJ_Reynolds ASCAP for life! They pay me! I like them! Get your stuff published! Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:46:03 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18467 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18467 Drinky_McGee ASCAP is a protection racket. "Pay us or we'll break your legs. Figuratively." I used to book bands at a place in Muncie, and we had to pony up every week. The money just disappears into a black hole and no one could ever explain to me what it was used for. I suppose most of it goes to hire lawyers. Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:23:35 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18463 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18463 mbnjmntrb if the sinking ship that is the music biz wants to sue clubs that hire bands to play billboard top 100 songs, they may as well just stop financing the recording, distribution, and promotion of any music whatsoever. Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:47:51 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18453 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18453 aLLENiMAGERY lol yes... this has become my session to vent :) i am all for musicians grinding to take care of the business aspects, i just think that some policies aren't in the best interest of the progression of creative music. Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:39:27 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18438 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18438 caralyn On a local level, most of the musicians I'm priveleged to count among my friends are more business savvy than most daytimers I know. I don't know that it's such a bad thing to have to be both a musician and a business man. It certainly makes expectations more realistic. And knowing that your bottom line is affected by the quality of your music should urge musicians to work harder to turn out a quality product. Not sure what this has to do with clubs not obtaining proper licensing...but there it is. Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:33:53 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18432 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18432 aLLENiMAGERY I understand the logistics... however i have had the privilege of witnessing REAL music being BORN in a cypher or jam session... so i realize the toll that the business side has taken on the creative side. Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:14:52 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18428 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18428 caralyn Hmmm...the entire industry sucks might be a bit harsh... The music business has always been about successful business on some level. I wonder how much of our attitude of entitlement to music has changed in an age where music is so pervasive that we've forgotten it was someone's hard work that got it from score paper to our ears. Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:29:14 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18425 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18425 aLLENiMAGERY i suppose... this is why the entire industry sucks now. the music business is more about business and less about the music... i understand that the key to being in any business is to make money, but at what cost? Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:12:04 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18416 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18416 JL Kato aLLEN: Your stance makes sense if you're a relative unknown and need the exposure, but established artists want the money. (Most of them, anyway.) Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:03:09 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18415 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18415 caralyn I haven't done much research on the subject, but even I know that you can get in trouble for not obtaining the proper licensing when opening any new business venture (regardless the nature). It just seems negligent on the part of Ice Ultra and the others not to exert the time and energey (and, honestly, professional courtesy) not to obtain a license from ASCAP. Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:57:51 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18414 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18414 aLLENiMAGERY wow... that's crazy. as an artist, i want my music to be heard WHERE EVER it can be... exposure is an amazing thing man... Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:55:34 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18413 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18413 JL Kato aLLEN: I don't think it matters -- live or recorded. As long as it's heard in a public place, licensing fees are required. Presumably the bands that sign up with ASCAP or BMI agree with the enforcement. Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:49:54 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18411 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18411 aLLENiMAGERY Now by PERFORMED, are they saying "played" or had cover bands actually come in and "perform"? This is crazy... So if I have a nice evening planned with that special someone, do I need a liscence to play some romantic tunes?? and if not, what about At a house party? Honestly, clubs benefit artists, whether they want to admit it or not. If you hear a tight song in the club, you are likely to run home and hit up itunes OR buy the CD the next day... Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:44:47 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18410 http://www.indy.com/posts/6320#comment_18410