http://www.indy.com/posts/4573 en-us Christopher Lloyd The whole global warming debate puts me in the unfortunate position of defending the people I disagree with, because those I do are so over-the-top arrogant and, frankly, un-American. It's one thing to say that the majority of evidence and most of the scientists support the concept of global warming, and that it's largely man-made. (Those are actually two separate arguments, although I generally support both.) It's quite another to take the position, as Al Gore and much of global-warming crowd does, that you do not have the right to disagree with them. That the debate is over, because we said so. That all evidence that runs counter to current thinking is to be ignored or buried. That executives of U.S. energy companies should be prosecuted on criminal charges because they financially support research and media campaigns that support their position. (Don't laugh; I actually heard this last idea stated on NPR this morning.) To me, the meaning of America boiled down to its essence is the right to believe in what you want to believe, and that no one else has the right to make you change what's in your heart and head other than by honestly convincing you. So any time I hear one of my fellow global-warming folks talking down to those who might disagree with them, even labeling them as "deniers" or "non-believers" the way a religious fanatic would a heretic, my blood boils hotter than any CO2-laden stratosphere. Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:03:44 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23905 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23905 Cradient Thank you Dexter. Ive talked about that with my father before. I think its completely ridiculous. Also , another good question. Why is it that the temperatures on other planets and moons in our solar system is going up? The ice caps on mars are melting as well as on the moons of Jupiter. I think there is something a little bigger than us that could have something to do with the climate changes. CO2 is not a greenhouse gas. CO2 is one of the main components for life on this earth. Heres a science questions for you all out there, What form of life uses CO2? Answer: plants. What do you think might happen with increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere? In prehistoric times the levels of CO2 and O2 in the atmosphere was WAY higher than what it is today. How do you think there were Dragon flys 6 ft long and dinosaurs as long as buses? An insects size is directly related to how much O2 then can absorb from the atmosphere. The same goes for all animals. Also, the average temperature on earth was a lot warmer about 5 or 6 hundred years ago than today. Thats why England was able to grow wine vineyards and make wine back then. One last point for any of you who are Al Gore followers, his hockey stick graph was completely mis leading. First off the graph didn't include the warming period around the 1400's and he incorrectly described the relationship between CO2 and temperature change. CO2 levels actually trail behind temperature changes by at least 6 to 8 hundred years. What does this tell you? Do some research and don't listen to what the major media folks are telling you. Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:36:34 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23895 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23895 Dexter Anyone remember when they thought we might be entering another ice age during the 70's? Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:04:56 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23893 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23893 erob54 Or if you wanna really believe in fairy tales... maybe god is angry with the Midwest....dun dun dun Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:21:23 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23881 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23881 bigwheeler Considering the hundred year flooding event that has just occured here, and what is being calle da 500 year event along areas of the Mississipi, I reopen this thread to the discussion. Wouldn't it be irresponsible to ingnore these events, when coupled with the data from the last two decades to say, that these storms were worse than they would have been had it not bee for anthropogenic climate forcings. The point I was trying to make earlier this year, is that we aren't immune to the human costs of disaster. I hate tornadoes and have had three family homes destroyed in recent storm activity. I am not trying to say that we can magicaly remove tornadic activity from the landscape but I believe it is irresponsible to not take action if there is a chance that our pollutants are contributing to the increases severity of these storms. I want to see us take action, because we have the second largest carbon footprint in the nation but also because if there is event the slightest chance of averting a damaging storm and saving lives I feel its worthwhile. I certainly understand if there is disagreement but I want an open discussion as to why that is. Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:18:59 -0400 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23880 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_23880 baggles I personally believe it is happening and to me the proof is in the glaciers. In glacier national park in Montana, they are rapidly melting away right before our eyes!! The fact that they are melting steadily shows that the overall temperature has gone up. Soon they will be gone... so sad. However, I also believe that part of it could be due to natural weather cycling... but to the extent it is happening... no. Regardless if global warming exists or not, my main concern is what we are doing to our environment. Like stated above, Indiana is the 49th worst state in poluting... yuck!! I think its our responsibility to protect our environment for future generations. Most likely our lazy, careless use of energy and resources isn't going to effect us personally... and I think that's why so many are lazy. But what about the next generation?? It just takes little things: recylcing, carpooling, energy efficient lightbulbs, etc. I hate how so many just don't care. Recylcing pick up is only $6.40 a month! Or you can drive your stuff to a nearby location for free!! IPL customers, you can get your energy from renewable resources for only 0.002 cents per kilowatt hour (average of $2 a month!!!) Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:08:54 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_13681 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_13681 bigwheeler Actualy neither you or I had any way of knowing but yesterday set an unfortunate record for tornadic activity in february with the national weather service confirming sixty tornadoes and more than fifty deaths nationwide and an additional seventy five injuries in Tennesee alone. I was sadly also wrong about the death toll earlier in the week by the southern storm systems, the actual death toll was twenty two. At this point in time after the IPCC report, NASA's climate model that shows that within five years we will have no more arctic ice, the NSA and pentagon assesment of global warming one of which came as early as 2004 as the most serious threat to global stability in addition to the most conservarive estimates by intergovernmental panels saying that this centruty could produce as many as 600,000,000 climate refugees. My point is that though one week of strange weather is by no means proof in and of itself with issues of climate we are indeed forced to look at the bigger picture and if weather such as this is to become more common it will have a direct impact on us as a state and city and I think that fact has realy yet to be acknowledged even though we are the 49th worst polluter in the nation with the average carbon footprint in the state well over ten tons acording to the alliance for climate protection and forbes magzine. Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:59:08 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_13275 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_13275 StellarSwarm So yeah...you just listed 1 week's worth of unusual weather, among EONS of unusual weather, and cited it as proof of global warming? As warm as it was yesterday, we did NOT hit a record high temperature. Warm spells and tornadoes in January and February are unusual, but by no means unheard of. In fact, January of 1999 saw the largest tornado outbreak in U.S. history with 141 confirmed tornadoes. I'd say we've faired pretty well compared to that, with only 38 tornadoes nationwide in January 2008. Thunderstorms, fog, rain/flooding...all symptoms of cold air from the north pushing in to replace the not-so-unusual warm air from the gulf...which is to say, it's going to get cold again, so calm down! I'm not saying that global warming doesn't exist, but as Randy said, it is grossly over-exaggerated. The world goes through long-term warming and cooling cycles. These cycles are so long that they far exceed our entire recorded history of weather data. Looking at such a short set of data on such a long timeline and declaring an out-of-control warming pattern would be like the Department of Transportation doing a 1 day survey of an intersection, seeing no wrecks, and deeming it safe...when in fact 150 wrecks have occurred over the other 364 days. A small sample may not be indicative of a long-term result. I do think we should be concerned with out environmental footprint, and reduce it where possible. But if you want people to listen to you seriously, you have to stop with the maniacal pseudo-scientific rants. You have to back up your arguments with hard evidence, rather than listing a bunch of unusual weather symptoms and then saying "See! Global Warming!!!" Nobody wants to listen to a raving lunatic. I mean, think about it...when was the last time you took anything out of Tom Cruise's mouth seriously? Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:28:08 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_13191 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_13191 randydaytona I don't know enough to deny it but I think it's exaggerated. Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:01:58 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_13188 http://www.indy.com/posts/4573#comment_13188