http://www.indy.com/posts/1210 en-us TomKlubens As one of the four different photographers that worked on the calendar, of course, I'm a little biased. That doesn't mean that I can't accpect criticism, trust I am my own worst critic. TJ, I think you missed the point of the photos. They are meant to be "pin-up" photos much in the same vein as Petty, Vargas, and Elvgren. And I don't think that is a "cop out." It seems to me that you were looking for something that just isn't supposed to be there. They aren't meant to tell any sort of story. They aren't meant to be some high art or high fashion pieces, they are meant to be gritty. It's a very easy trap to fall into and sort "over think" when critiquing. Sometimes you need to take a step back and ask yourself, "Does it work?" I'm always open to suggestions, as Dads56 mentioned above, I'd like to hear what you would have done differently. Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:30:46 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5688 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5688 ArtistDan This has been an enjoyable thread with well written opinions. It's great that a show can illicit responses and motivate so many to take the time to join in a dialog. I missed going to that 1st Friday, and this exchange will make me try harder to show up at the next one. Thank you all for caring and sharing. Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:07:55 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5652 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5652 Dads56 TJ... Enlighten me... You said: "All the photos seemed very by-the-book, no real chance taken with the compositions or locations, and ineffective lighting." Give me an example of what, where and where would have you considered the photographer had taken a chance? I thought the stocking clad Roller Girls in the Laundromat was very well composed. The colors and shapes really stood out the moment I saw them. I don't think a public facility flooded with fluorescent lighting would be an easy location. I do agree with Jane... people are talking.. and that's cool. You did good T.J. Thanks. Seriously. Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:13:44 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5644 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5644 vanessa.monfreda Why Do you think that they is something to "get" when you look at art? There is not an answer for every question.It is just an expression. And there is nothing to be afraid of. As for Big Car Gallery, it is kid-friendly,I 've brought my rowdy boys there. Plus, the Murphy building is great for kids to play tag or hide and seek. Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:57:05 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5572 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5572 Jane I'll be the first to admit that I am not well-versed in art. I've spent time at the IMA looking at a painting only to finally admit that, whatever the artist was trying to get across, I don't "get it". I always figured I just wasn't that interested in art, until I discovered other styles of art, such as the "lowbrow" art Sherri mentioned. I love First Fridays because there are so many different styles of art to see, so many artists displaying their work. Some I like, some I don't particularly care for, some I "get", some I don't, but I love the variety. And I appreciate the effort the artists put in, and the chance to view their work free of charge. And TJ, if you put a review up on a site like this where people can respond to it, you are going to have people disagreeing with your viewpoint, every time. But it can lead to a good dialogue, so embrace it. Anything to get people talking about art and culture is a good thing, I think. Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:47:23 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5571 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5571 TJ_Reynolds 1) I will try to back up my critiques better in the future. I don't think it will cause people to be less reactionary, but at least they know where I come from. 2) I will think about things more outside of my personal taste. But it is a review and untilmately comes down to the reviewer's personal taste. 3) I will not begin and end every review with IMHO (in my humble opinion). It's a given. 4) The "Bad Art Movement" I mentioned was in reference to the actual movement in art from the mid-20th century. It was a label a group of non-technically skilled artists gave themselves. 5) I don't feel pricing has to do with whether something is fine art or not. I don't care about that label. If it's hanging on a canvass at an art show, it can be judged on the same level as any other work in a gallery, regardless of where it's "meant" to be displayed (street, etc.). 6) I don't evaluate things on a "local" level. It's got to stand up to the big dogs... I appreciate eveybody's comments. I've only been "reviewing" things for a few weeks, so maybe I'm still learning the best way to state a view. I appreciate the comments to help me improove. Most of the discussion in this post has actually been pretty good. Peace. Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:18:50 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5527 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5527 Christopher Lloyd Agreed, Jim. This becomes especially critical when you take into account the (I think artificial) distinction people make between the "high" arts -- painting, sculpture, etc. -- and the low. They seem more willing to accept the "Hey-it's-just-my-opinion" thing when writing about music and movies. But when it comes to plays or stuff hanging in a gallery, any negative criticism aimed at it gets taken as the Voice from on High rendering judgment for all eternity. Reviews represent the opinion of one person, and nothing more. Their purpose is not to tell you what to think, but to tell you what I think (or she thinks, or he thinks). Hopefully it's engaging enough to encourage you to go experience the art yourself and form your own opinion. And that's why First Fridays are a great asset to our community, whether you like everything you see or not. Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:58:48 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5498 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5498 brad.pitt While it's hard to comment on people's opinions about art, it's pretty easy to comment on the way people express them. If somebody is going to write that something somebody made and showed (be it art or music or movies or whatever) is bad, this opinion should be well supported and shouldn't just be about the personal taste of the critic. If I don't like the subject matter of a work of art -- I don't dig war movies or new country music or landscape paintings that much, for instance -- I can't just say it was poorly done. It was just not for me. That's a lot different. In reviews of any kind -- including posts here -- it's a good idea to make a distinction between saying "I didn't enjoy the thing personally" and dismissing it as "bad" in general. Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:43:04 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5493 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5493 alchemissy tj- i am a bit unclear as to what the "bad art movement" comment was in reference to. i absolutely agree that we should hold ourselves to a standard and that work should be well done. that is why i partnered in the ownership of a gallery. i bet (based only on what i have read) our definition of what makes art well done or what would meet a good standard, would be different. nonetheless, that difference makes discussion on art interesting. i hope that you did not find my response as being defensive or taking your critique too personally. just as you should not take the critique on your misspellings by the first respondant, personally. i fear that written word is read with whatever voice the reader has in their head and not always the voice in which it was written. i was simply sharing my opinion on the matter. the opinion of the person who has been the focus of many critiques. good and bad. i absolutely welcome your critique anytime, preferably in as much detail as you can give. good critique is one of the things that makes artists get better. i enjoy the discussion that has taken place. what do you mean by "roughly painted 'cliched' scenes"? we will just have to disagree that Argento films and a show based on them is more closely related to Halloween. a quick read of the holidays on wikipedia.org will clarify it all. Bonfires, costumes, pumpkin carving, and trick-or-treating have little to do with death. However, if we are talking about the traditional Halloween, then yes, we are basically talking about the same holiday. However, Halloween is "All Saints Day" and we were celebrating "All Souls Day"...which is all about death. debate and discussion are good for all of us! see you next month. hopefully, you will enjoy it more! Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:30:23 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5463 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5463 LuxVoodoo One problem with art criticism, and art critics in general, is that everyone is working on the assumption there is a right way and a wrong way to do things when it comes to art. So called artistic blue bloods rarely take into consideration that art can work on many different levels to a vast cross section of people. Take me, for example. Like I said in an earlier comment, I'm just your average working stiff making little over $11.00 an hour slinging retail goods every day. I don't go to art galleries that often and I can't draw to save my life. Yet I know I prefer O'Keeffe over Monet and Rick Bartow over Norman Rockwell. Da Vinci's good, but so is Hopper. Some people just don't discriminate between "high art" and "low art". I mean, what's the real difference between the Mona Lisa and a Bettie Page pin-up anyway, besides maybe a few hundred years and a tick up on the technological meter? Aren't they both extremely beautiful women posed specifically for a portrait? To me, it's all the same thing. One person's trash is another person's trinket and all that. Some people look at a Pollock and see spilled paint. I look at one and see a man's subconscious splattered over a canvas like his brain just exploded. It doesn't necessarily tell me any kind of story, but it sure tugs at me the same way a Renoir does. And that's why I'll never buy into this artificial distinction between classes of art. Look at FOUND magazine. Is the trash people pick up on the streets art? If not, what's it doing showing at an art gallery? Good art, bad art. Whatever. Some art just works for people while leaving other people cold. It's that simple to me. But I'll be damned if I think my path is the only one out there. Regardless of what I think, any conversation about art still helps to bring awareness. If it wasn't for things like the roller girl calendar or places like Big Car, I doubt I would've stumbled into the world of First Fridays. As it stands, my wife and I are planning to make as many of these as our schedule permits from here on out. "Very by-the-book, no real chance taken with the compositions or locations, and uneffective lighting" brought me in. Who knows where it will lead me next. I can't wait to find out, though. Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:26:29 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5460 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5460 sherri.pfouts Maybe I chose the wrong word then ... I was responding to the uneffective lighting or whatever it was and the no real chance taken. I personally thought they did a great job, but, like I said, I'm biased and I know the talents behind the lenses. No biggie either way. I hope my post didn't come across as taking it personally, because I actually wasn't. Pfouts over and out! Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:40:28 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5453 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5453 Dads56 TJ.... I disagree with your review of the work on display at Alias and Big Car. I loved the stencils at Alias.... I thought they were incredibly well done. The subjects and pics were classic. You wrote the gallery was preseting "street art" as "fine art,"... I didn't get that at all... c'mon the friggin' things were $100.00! I'd hardly call that fine art pricing. I think they were (and priced)just as they were... fun and well done. I do not need my art to be "stimulating and challenging" to give it value. I just want my art to make me smile... or feel a moment of peace. I have actually thought about those stencil portraits several times since visiting, wishing I had picked one up I forgot the name of the gallery... but now I know. I'll see is they still have any available. Gotta run to the airport.. I'll shout out for the photo's at the BC later! Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:02:42 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5403 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5403 TJ_Reynolds Another opinion on Alias' show: http://www.nuvo.net/articles/movingforwardasoloexhibitionofworksbymikiebanks_/ Sherri, I don't see how you see my opinion on the calendar (or any work) as belittling. That was the most supported opinion I gave, and even gave your group some complements to balance it out. And I still feel roughly painted cliched scenes from b-movie horror flicks is a stretch to connect to day of the dead. They are a lot more Holloweenish, I know you can admit that. And, yes, Alchemissy, the whole "bad art" movement was pretty wack to me. All I said was I think the work should be done well, and we should hold ourselves to a standard (plug in your definitions of both). You dissagree? When I come back next month, and write another review, I 'll let you know in great detail why I did or didn't like your show... Thanks for responding. Please everyone; work on not taking criticism so personally... Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:34:48 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5399 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5399 sherri.pfouts Oh, and Taffy: The "First 48" joke was for you. Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:08:54 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5386 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5386 fountainsquarian I am venturing to say that "al7225" actually doesn't have steak in one of the galleries and is not running one, seeing as how I know each of them personally. I am one of the residents of the Murphy. I think the only thing we agree on is the fact that the show at Alias was poor. But, based on your opinion expressed and art that you purchased, I can tell that we disagree on what defines good art. I am underwhelmed by your writing. Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:58:04 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5385 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5385 sherri.pfouts Hi TJ, Thanks for starting this discussion. It's great to see the different viewpoints. Lux Voodoo mentioned that this was his first First Friday event ... he doesn't run a gallery or have any bias as far as I know. I noticed you're into the hip-hop scene from the looks of your profile, and the show you liked the most took its inspiration from hip-hop, yes? For that reason, I think this is all subjective -- a case of what one likes versus another, and it's fine that what strikes one as art doesn't speak to another in the same way. That's ok; that's why we have a bunch of different galleries on the First Friday circuit showcasing lots of different artists. I wouldn't want it any other way. I hugely support lowbrow art--the stuff that's made for the masses, that speaks to people on a street level, that doesn't necessarily serve up deep-thinking, man's-inhumanity-to-man, tortured artist meaning with each stroke of the brush--I mean, really, we have "The First 48" on TV when we need to be reminded of how unfair life is, right? I'm a banner waver for art that doesn't need to abide by prescribed rules or definitions, but can instead take its inspiration from anything: hot rods, comic books, slasher films or your grandma's dirty underwear ... whatever's appropriate for the moment. That's what makes life (and art) interesting, methinks. I applaud Alias for bringing street art to a gallery (and print magazine) setting, and I think the calendar pictures are beautiful (and so are the girls in them) -- they're creative, imaginative, a little naughty but not so much that our moms and dads and nieces and nephews can't enjoy them, too. And yes, I am biased. I think this is all a matter of tastes. What suits you might not suit me, and vice versa. I do, however, know how much work, time, imagination and talent it took to pull off the many photo shoots for the calendar (I was in one of them, so I saw first-hand how much work it took on the part of others just for my little picture), so I think your opinions might sting a little when you so easily belittle those efforts. But, overall? Conversation is good. Keep it coming. Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:47:35 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5381 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5381 jessica.halverson Take them! (Just go early.) You'd be surprised how many strollers and tots are out being artsy. Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:47:03 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5380 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5380 alchemissy i agree with taffy. it is odd to get so worked up over it all. being a part of what is helping to shape the growing art scene, we have dedicated ourselves to showing good work and taking risks. to have critics come through and write reviews with little to no substance (ie. not actually critiquing the work specifically and just calling it "underwhelming") ...as if they didn't even take the time to absorb the work infront of them, is a little frustrating. i very much welcome critique - positive or negative. it is absolutely necessary. keep in mind that it is very difficult to sustain a gallery here in Indianapolis and people really listen to what you say. take time and care. you are absolutely entitled to your opinion about the galleries here at the Murphy. every show is not for everyone. side notes: Day Of The Dead All Soul's Day - day two of the Dead of the Dead celebration, following All Saints Day (Feast of All Souls, Commemoration of all the Faithful Departed, Dia de los Muertos [Mexico], Defuncts' Day [in Hungary, France and Italy], Dia de los Difuntos [Ecuador],etc.) "The Roman Catholic celebration is based on the doctrine that the souls of the faithful which at death have not been cleansed from venial sins, or have not fully atoned for mortal sins, cannot attain the beatific vision in heaven yet, and that they may be helped to do so by prayer and by the sacrifice of the Mass." I would say that paintings of dying//dead women have everything to do with a holiday celebrating departed souls. ps. Caralyn, ALCHEMY is layed back... we welcome your kids anytime! we encourage parents to include their children in the viewing experience and make sure to have kid friendly drinks at our openings. although, this may not be the month to bring the kids, due to the blood. :) Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:40:49 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5379 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5379 Neal Taflinger It's hard to believe anyone gets hot under the collar about First Fridays. I love the event because it highlights just how many working artists and galleries there are in this city, provides a wide array of styles and subject matter, and normalizes the process of viewing and buying art for the Average Joe & Joesephine. Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:37:48 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5330 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5330 Nicki Caralyn, I think you should have signed your post NSDG (No Sitter, Didn't Go). Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:00:32 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5325 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5325 caralyn All right...let me preface this by saying I have not, as yet, attended a First Friday. Been dying to for some time now, but sitters are not as abundant as they once were, and I get the vibe that most galleries are not, shall we say, kid friendly. However, I gobble up any reviews/opinions/details I can after each one. Just wanted to tell you that I appreciate the informed honesty about your overall experience with the Murphy this month. Sincerely, A would-be attendee Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:07:09 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5317 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5317 TJ_Reynolds al7225: It wasn't that I don't enjoy certain types of art; it's that I felt these particular pieces weren't done very well. Of course it's my opinion. And one cannot really argue someone's opinion; all they can do is state theirs and try to back it up. I love the Murphy, and I think there's only been one opening at Alias I haven't attended. If you paid attention you see that I had actually purchased some artwork from the gallery the month before. And I bought work from another gallery, this month. I support the scene, and an important part of supporting a scene is thinking critically, believe it or not. Granted, Alias is a gallery that presents "street art" as "fine art," with canvasses on the wall and all. Therefore, it cannot be judged as street art alone. But what do horror and slasher movies have to do with Dia de los Muertos? That makes me think people don't have a very clear understanding of that holiday. It is a cop out to say something was "not meant to be analyzed…" If you have work up for a first Friday opening, it should be done well, because people are spending their time to come and look at it and possibly purchase it. Everyone who looks at a work of art automatically analyzes it to some degree. One shouldn't dismiss art saying, 'This is just for a calendar." etc. It is by not holding ourselves to a standard that our art scene suffers. And by putting any work into a gallery, especially on a First Friday tour, you are opening yourself up to varying opinions and reviews. I know I wasn't the only person under whelmed by the work in general. By the way, you don't have to wonder who is doing the reviewing. That is my real name, and those are my real opinions. From your opinions (and defensive stance), I'm willing to guess you have some personal steak in one of the galleries, most likely running one…so your opinion is a little more biased than mine. But thanks for reading, and I appreciate your commentary. Next time I'll try to only have six misspellinks. See you next month… Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:00:21 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5303 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5303 LuxVoodoo Sometime around 1951 or so, Bettie Page started modeling for "camera clubs" and pin-up/bondage king Irving Klaw for rent money. The photographs from this time are relatively flat considering the work she would do for photographer Bunny Yeager two years later. Those early black and white shots had no real composition or lighting. They told no story. They contained no expensive props, save maybe a threadbare sock monkey and a ball gag or two. The locations were dingy New York apartments. Yet, those photos are now considered art 55+ years later. They're included in calendars and coffee table books. They're the inspiration for comic books and erotic paintings by other artists. They're iconic. They didn't start out that way, but history has deemed them so. Which is why I'm keeping my Naptown Roller Girl calendar in pristine condition. Who needs a story when you have a few hot women in retro poses? Maybe the women are supposed to be the story. And maybe that's as far down as you're supposed to deconstruct it. I'll be honest. The roller derby show at Big Car was my introduction into the whole First Friday thing. And the thing I liked about the artists in the Murphy Building was their willingness to put their art out there and make it accessible to everybody, no matter what their background. At Big Car you had grunge, beer-drinking folk standing side-by side with suit-jacketed yuppie wine tasters. Then you had average schmoes like me. As the old saying goes, "I don't know about art, but I know what I like." For me, art is about gut instinct. There's nothing wrong with looking for the hidden meaning or subtle narrative of a piece. I'm just saying that kind of thinking doesn't work for everybody. Sometimes art is created just to be enjoyed, regardless of what level its supposed to reside on according to scholars and critics. And for a guy who operates on gut alone, the real art was not in the galleries of the Murphy building. It was on the walls in the stairwells and hallways. It was on the walls as a John Clark mural with a big piece of ductwork jutting out from it. It was a guy doing chalk work on a blackboard. And it was pictures of a roller girl dressed in bikini top made out of candy necklaces. That First Friday showed how art should be presented--inclusive, not exclusive. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:27:34 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5270 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5270 al7225 What is art meant to do? Inspire? Challenge? Ornate? Encourage? Shock? Whatever it is meant to do is subjective upon the viewer. The Murphy Building is a great place to navigate through on First Fridays-there are many studios and galleries to look through and most of all, different types of subject matter. Perhaps one person doesn't enjoy horror paintings or calendar poses or nude pictures of pregnant women, but to each his own. I appreciate a well painted canvas and an art review that has been fact-checked, proof-read and spell-checked (I counted 7 spelling errors). Alias is a gallery for street art and that's exactly what it was and meant to be…maybe it isn't what someone calls "fine art", but they do not claim to such. The opening at Alchemy was to celebrate the Day of the Dead, or All Souls Day, which takes place on November 2nd...the day of the opening...not post-holiday as suggested. This opening was engaging; it took thought and time to plan--with Day of the Dead music, food, candles and video. The images of the women weren't meant to be psychoanalyzed or de-feminized…they were created to just be. The show at Big Car was for a calendar...not a photo shoot for the ages. There were a plethora of images, perhaps too many, but interesting and beautiful images nonetheless. Michael Graves' studio is one that I debate going into each First Friday. For this opening to be the "best show" makes me wonder who is doing the reviewing. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:41:20 -0500 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5260 http://www.indy.com/posts/1210#comment_5260