Hoosiers discuss Prop. 8 and their experiences with gay marriage
The brides wore white
Anna Glowinski and Beth Droste were high school sweethearts who married each other twice this summer — in each woman’s version of a dream wedding. Phil Bailey and Todd Cox also exchanged vows twice, first at their local church, and then, four years later, in Canada. Both couples consider themselves married in the traditional sense, though neither couple’s union is legal in Indiana. With propositions banning same-sex marriages passing in three states on Nov. 4, including California’s highly publicized Prop. 8, we met with two Indy couples to see what life is like in a state that doesn’t recognize their unions.
The two women met and fell in love as teenagers at their Southside Catholic high school.
But Anna Glowinski and Beth Droste, both now 24, were friends before they realized they had feelings for each other.
Being gay wasn’t something either had considered.
“I had a boyfriend at the time,” Beth said, then laughed.
“I never really thought about anything like that,” said Anna, now a residence hall director at the University of Indianapolis. “We kinda came out together. It just happened.”
Anna and Beth dated for a few months during their junior year at Roncalli High School, then broke up. Anna, who hadn’t dated anyone before Beth — and who was still unsure about her sexuality — needed some time.
“I went from being nothing to being gay,” she said. “There were just a lot of questions. It took me a lot longer to say, ’It’s OK, people support me.’ Beth was always OK with it.”
Beth was not only sure about her sexuality, she was sure she wanted to be with Anna. But she understood that Anna needed space.
“It was too much,” said Beth, a student at the Indiana Therapeutic Massage School. “We had come out and been a couple, all at the same time.”
But later that year, in 2003, Beth’s older sister died in a car accident. Anna was instantly by her side.
“She knew what I needed without me saying anything,” Beth said. “We started dating for the last time.”
They were married — twice — this past October.
Wedding No. 1: Oct. 10 at the Rathskeller in Downtown Indianapolis. They wore white wedding gowns, carried coordinating bouquets of Asiatic lilies and said their vows in front of 160 people. A family friend officiated.
“It was really her wedding,” Anna said, smirking in Beth’s direction. “I mean, I was there…”
Wedding No. 2: Oct. 14 in Cape Cod, Mass., a state that has allowed gay marriage since 2005. They were married, barefoot, in rolled-up khakis and sweaters, at sunset, on a windy day on the beach by a justice of the peace. The marriage is recognized as legal only in Massachusetts.
“Really, for us as a couple, it was the best of both worlds,” Anna said. “We actually got to have both our dream weddings within the same week.”
Beth grew up wanting the fairy-tale wedding and the intricate diamond ring to go with it. She’s chatty, confident, and loves to talk about her sexual orientation. Anna, who’s a little more reserved, wanted a small wedding and chose a simple yellow and white gold band.
“We’re as married as we can be,” Beth said.
Dream weddings (and a 10-day honeymoon in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico) aside, the women look forward to a time when they can legally marry in Indiana and carry the same rights as a heterosexual couple — tax breaks, work benefits and the authority to make medical decisions. They wonder if that might come later rather than sooner, after a number of same-sex marriage bans, including California’s highly publicized Proposition 8, passed in three states on Nov. 4.
“I thought California was more liberal than that,” Anna said. “I didn’t think it would get passed. I’m interested to see what will happen.”
They want equal rights and to be recognized as married by the country they live in, but Anna and Beth say the marriage bans are a small hindrance in the gay civil rights movement.
“It’s only getting better from here,” Beth said.
Vowing for change
Men vow to stay in Indiana to work for state recognition
Phil Bailey scrunches his nose as he shoots a glance over at his husband.
“Saying we’re ‘normal gay’ sounds pretty stupid,” he says. “Maybe ‘boring gay?’.”
Phil, 38, and Todd Cox, 41, are sitting in their living room at their home on 73rd Street with their two corgis, William and Harry.
They’re recounting the day they met (at a Downtown club in 1995), went out on their first date. (Todd did the asking out. Phil says he thought it was a group hangout, not a date. Todd shrugs and smiles coyly: “Everybody else was busy.”)
They were engaged in 1998 (again, Todd did the asking), had a holy union at Jesus Metropolitan Community Church in 1999 and then were married, legally, in Canada, in 2003. The holy union is a religious service and “the best you can do,” Todd says. “It’s what they recognize most for anniversaries.”
“We’re married,” said Todd, a pharmacy manager for Wishard Hospital. “It would be nice for it to be legal in Indiana, to have all those rights. But in the eyes of God and my family, we’re married.”
It wasn’t — and still isn’t — easy.
“(Planning the ceremony) took us a little longer, too,” Phil says, “because of …..”
“Bigots,” Todd interrupts.
Finding people to help with the wedding was the hardest task. One florist refused.
“I had someone say on the phone, ‘Well, my husband and I are Christian and we don’t believe in it,’” said Phil, education coordinator for JoAnn Fabrics & Crafts in Castleton. “And I was like, ’We’re Christian, too.’.”
The two men wonder about the future of gay marriage in Indiana, considering that Proposition 8, a ban on same-sex marriage, passed in California on Election Day.
A similar ban was introduced in Indiana last year, but was killed in the House.
“It gives some of the small-minded people in the House and the Senate incentive to push it again,” Phil said.
“By allowing a majority vote on a minority issue, you’re warping what a true democracy is,” Phil said.
Regardless of the ban passed in California and in other states, the election of Barack Obama has given them hope. Obama has said he doesn’t support same-sex marriage, but Todd and Phil think he had to take that position to win the election.
“You shouldn’t be able, in this country, to vote on civil rights,” Todd said. “Would you vote on the rights of a Jewish person? Are we the last group that it’s OK to discriminate against?”
Todd and Phil have discussed moving to a state where their marriage would be recognized, but decided to stay in the state they both grew up in.
“This is our city,” Todd said. “You stand and fight where you are. It has to stop somewhere.”
And it will, they say.
“The civil rights movement as a whole is moving forward,” Todd said. “When I graduated from high school, I couldn’t imagine this.”
It’s not moving quickly, but they both can imagine a time when they’ll be legally married in this country.
When Todd thinks about the possibility, he smiles hopefully.
“I’ll be very old,” he says.
What’s next for Hoosiers?
We spoke with some local community leaders to see what they think the future is for same-sex marriages in Indiana.
Tiffany Dow, board member, Indiana Black Pride
“(Indiana is) not at the forefront, by any means. I believe there will be (legal same-sex marriage) at some point, but I think the only way it’s going to happen in the state is if it’s a federal thing.
“It’s kind of scary to me that with Prop. 8 passing, a right that was already given to people was taken away, at the hands of the voters. Any time you have minorities’ rights dictated by the majority, that’s certainly a civil rights issue.”
Micah Clark, executive director, American Family Association of Indiana
“You’re going to see this issue come up again and again in Indiana. I think you’re going to see that the homosexual activists are going to push for marriage, and Indiana will someday have to defend its laws or allow same-sex marriages.
“We have a very high hurdle for changing the constitution. We’ve come close.
“It would easily pass, but the House leadership does not want that to happen and has blocked it on three or four occasions. If it were allowed, it would pass easily. What the voters would do with it, I don’t know.”
Todd Woodmansee, Indianapolis lawyer
“The passage of Prop. 8 sets us back as a community, as a nation. California is such a bellwether for social progression, and we’re not getting that right now after what happened.
“The problem we run into is that people confuse the legal issue and the religious issue. If they do have the same rights, then I don’t care what you call it.
I think it’s going to be (legal) within the next five to 10 years. The (U.S.) Supreme Court is going to have to address this issue because we have so many states now that either recognize it or explicitly defy it in their constitution.
“Marriage has been redefined for years and years and years. So many things have evolved. Society has to adapt and change, and the fear-mongering that is out there is what disturbs me the most.”
Patrick Mangan, executive director, Citizens for Community Values of Indiana
“The truth is that Hoosier families are not embracing this, and that Hoosier families are not hating anyone either. People who oppose this are lovingly opposing the homosexual agenda. Where we are as a nation, this is a very contentious issue, but those who support traditional marriage care about everyone involved, including those who struggle with same-sex attraction. What we would like to do as a society is to help those to overcome it, and to avoid those harms.”
Jeff Miner, senior pastor of Jesus Metropolitan Community Church, a gay/lesbian friendly congregation
“Indiana is the only state in the nation that has successfully defeated an attempt to amend its constitution to discriminate (against) gay people. That’s something we can be proud of. It seems obvious that the religious right will continue in its efforts. ….. Our concern is that we not go backwards and use the constitution as a club. It’s always sad when any state uses its constitution to discriminate.
“Just like some churches took the lead in the black civil rights movement, I think that some churches have a right to get involved and insist that government treat people equally.”
Where Indiana stands
Indiana law defines marriage as being only between a man and a woman.
There’s no amendment in the state’s constitution banning same-sex marriage. A proposal to amend the constitution has been pushed in years past, as opponents of gay marriage fear Indiana’s judges could strike down the law. Such a ban failed to pass out of the General Assembly in 2007 and again this year, which means the lengthy process to amend the state constitution would have to start from scratch in 2009. That’s unlikely to happen.
Democratic House Speaker B. Patrick Bauer has not shown a willingness to allow a floor vote. A constitutional amendment requires passage by two separately elected legislatures, followed by the approval of voters in a general election.
If a constitutional amendment were to pass in 2009 or 2010, it would have to be approved by the General Assembly again in 2011 or 2012 before voters would have the chance to vote on the measure in the 2012 general election.
— The Indianapolis Star
Across the nation
Thirty states have passed constitutional bans on same-sex marriage, including the most recent ones voted in on Nov. 4: California, Arizona and Florida.
California, which has been viewed as a flagship for gay civil rights issues, received a lot of publicity when its ban, Proposition 8, was passed. The move could mean Indiana, as well as other states, might follow its lead or continue to move toward wider rights for gays and lesbians.
prop 8, gay marriage, Proposition 8, marriage, weddings, rights, Equal Rights, same-sex marriage, California
If you’ve ever known anyone who tried to deny their homosexual tendencies and live in the closet, you know that it’s next to impossible, because people won’t rest until they find out the “truth”, one way or another. Homosexuals cant deny their preferences, and it’s not realistic or fair to say they should “choose” not to act on it. There but for the grace of God, go I…Or you
Great article. I think that it’s beautiful when two people fall in love, no matter what their orientation is. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That’s all anyone is trying to do. And I definitely agree with the comment that most religious zealots have never known a gay person. I have multiple gay friends and if you would ever get to know anyone who considers themselves gay/lesbian/bi/transgender – they are no different than anyone else. They are everyday people doing everyday boring things like the rest of us, going to work, watching TV together, going to movies and concerts. And they love just like gasp straight people. I mean really drawing any sort of judgmental line just doesn’t make any sense to me. To me it’s like separating blondes and brunettes.
Yay for Todd and Phil. The article was so well written I could imagine the interview. (“Bigots,” Todd interrupts)
Reply to mb3796 yesterday at 10:38 AM
Well “SWEETIE” if you choose to woller in this lifestyle of harmony and companionship by all means do so. I’m not going to stop you. “To Each Their Own” You should feel fortunate to a limited attraction-?. You too have proven that the scale of literacy is indeed a vast and changing one. My post was my opinion and as you; you are entitled to yours.
Remember opinions are like certain parts of the human anatomy: Everybody has one. smoochy – smoochy
Wonderfully written article! Along with all the other reasons for supporting gay marriage here’s another. All the legislators/politicians/judges are attorneys, am I correct? Ok… here’s some logic they will understand… MONEY. Any wedding requires money. The marriage license filing fee, florists, bakeries, churches, jewelers, formal attire purchases/rentals, caterers, reception halls, etc. The list goes on. After the marriage, most will consider having or adopting children. This requires attorneys, doctors, courts, and all their staff. This requires money. Statistically, 50% of all marriages end in divorce. This too requires.. you guessed it.. MONEY. Court fees, attorney fees, etc. Then another household is created. The cycle continues. We want equal rights.. not special rights. Along with those equal rights comes equal responsibilities. We are ready for those rights and responsibilities.
I don’t understand where all these “Designer Bibles” come from. I guess if you don’t want to agree with Bibles that’s been in existents for centeries, just make up one that lets you do whatever you please. Just form a little group and write your own “Book” of rules. After a while you’ll convence yourselves it’s the real thing. My Bible says it takes a MAN and a WOMAN to make babies and that’s what MARRIAGE is all about
Perhaps that’s why so many marriages today fail – because people go into it thinking the purpose of marriage is “all about having babies”. And I thought you should get married because you’re in love with someone – not because you want to get knocked up!
Oh sweetie, thanks for being so kind – I’m sorry I can’t accept the kisses you offered as I am in a committed relationship – and since you seem to be curious about my sexual orientation, I’ll let you know it isn’t limited at all – I’ll give both guys and girls an equal shot because I’m attracted to the person that comes to play – not the equipment they bring to the game.
joe.shearer : RE: RE: Hoosiers discuss Prop. 8 and their experiences with gay marriage More..
The bible says a LOT of things that we wouldn’t consider to be relevant today. All of that stuff about stoning people for what we’d consider today to be minor transgressions (like stealing, for example).
And one thing I do know is that the bible can also be interpreted very easily as saying evolution is the reality. Read genesis. I believe the passage is “And the lord said let from the waters spring life” or something like that, which could very easily mean (as much as anything) that God chose evolution to create man. I’m just sayin’. There’s a passage too that suggests aliens came down out of the sky and talked to man.
We could sit here all day and debate the meaning of the bible (and frankly, the Bible has indeed been rewritten for ages, by priests and the illiterate nuns and monks who translated them, to serve the interests of those in power), but the fact remains that irrespective of what the Bible says, it is not our constitution. Our constitution talks about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, equal rights for all, freedom from oppression and tyranny, and so on. To deny one group civil liberties on the basis of one group doesn’t like what they do or what they stand for runs counter to both the constitution, and what America stands for. It is by definition tyrrany and oppression.
joe.shearer : RE: Hoosiers discuss Prop. 8 and their experiences with gay marriage More..
And when did this place become the Star message board 2.0? Indy.com has been a place of relative harmony until recently…I guess since this story hit. I guess it’s struck a nerve.
Its time that we give are feloow humans the same rights in love as we have as hederosexuals. If we don’t give them the opporunity of the word marriage lets give them the same rights if thats what they choose to do. I think its strange that where we are at in the world today this is what we fight about, not the fact that children around this world are dying, or women in africa having the breast cut off with a machete, no we spend houndreds of thousands on paper and plastic as well ast television adds all to encourage the removal of someones right to love someone.
bango, bango, bango—don’t make me go to my e-mail archive and find the one about all of the antiquated Bible stuff that is ridiculous in this day and age. Any time someone starts pulling Leviticus out of their a@@, you know they are desperate. Gay marriage is not a threat to the sanctity of marriage—DIVORCE is. Just quit whining, and let people go about their business. No gay person gives two craps about you, but you sure seem to get your tighty whiteys in a bunch about what we’re doing—just let it go—I would seriously hope you have more important things to worry about.
You’re GD right, it did, Joe—harmony time is over. We’re pretty sick of just sitting back and saying, “Okay,” and putting up with all the hate that is slung at us, on a daily basis.
“My Bible says it takes a MAN and a WOMAN to make babies and that’s what MARRIAGE is all about”
Poogiesue, so because my husband and I (a woman) don’t want children we shouldn’t be married? Our minister friends – one officiated and one was his best man – would disagree with that statement.
Let me start by stating I am a hetrosexual male married for 18 years to the same woman. I STRONGLY belive that wether you are staight or gay you shoul have the same rights to love and marry whosoever you choose. Gay marriage is no thereat to me or any one else for that matter. I have raise quite a few eyebrows with my philosophy on the subject which is as follows— I beilive at some point God looked down on the Earth and said " Look at all the People using up all our resources, and all the people having kids they can’t afford to raise. It’s a sad state of affairs. Hey ya know if I make some Men love Men and some Women love Women the population problem will slow, and those kids waiting to be adopted by a loving couple could be." Now I don’t know if this is true or not but I will make sure to ask God when I see him. As a foot note it should be pointed out that both of my parents were divorced before they met, My brother is Divorced now, My Sister is divorced now BUT my Uncle and his Husband have been together for 25 years, My aunt and her wife have been together for 30. I am modeling my marriage after their “Gay” marriages WAY MORE than i am my hetro-divorce spiraling family. Seems they are doing a way better job of it.
If you believe in God and read His Book, you have no leg to stand on in supporting gay marriage. I am not going to argue scriptures here because I know that we would have difference opinions of what it says. But, in the end we will find out the truth, meantime why don’t you go though you’re Bible and cut out the scripture that you do not believe in and keep those which you do. Maybe you can turn them around to read as too your lifestyles needs. For those who do not believe at all in God, they do as you please, fulfill your pleasure now while you can because their will not any judgment (in your mind) when you pass on to whatever life you believe in. If you are a “Homosexual Christian” there are many so called churches today that will support your belief. But in the end, what if you are wrong in the eyes of God?
Judge not lest yea be judged.
Let’s worry about the big picture and not about what our neighbors are doing.
Just a little perspective, folks.
Christiebelle : RE: Hoosiers discuss Prop. 8 and their experiences with gay marriage More..
I personally feel that all legal union (even those between a man and a woman) should be civil unions. This will let churches do whatever they want and leave the rest of us well enough alone. I have taken it upon myself to love people even if they have different lifestyles than myself. I do not have the same level of hate that many in the “christian” community demonstrate I guess.
FWIW I am a straight woman married to a straight man in a high tax bracket with a dog and a cat and NO children. I do not think that the values of a few should be pushed on everyone through government.
I had a gay son, who suffered trying to get me to accept his life syle, but I was so religious, that it was very hard. He was the same person that he had always been on the inside, but when he started to dress different, I became ashamed. He did so many things for me, and I loved him dearly, but I wanted him to be like he used to be, so that I could be comfortable with my religion, and with him. He is dead now, and I now understand that it was difficult for him to be anything different. Religion kept me from loving and accepting my son for who he was. I am still a Christian and I love God. I just wish I could have done a better job with my dear son. I would love for him to be here now so that I could hug him, and show him how much I really love him for who he is. He has been dead for 7 years, and was 33 when he died.




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