Hoosiers discuss Prop. 8 and their experiences with gay marriage
The brides wore white
Anna Glowinski and Beth Droste were high school sweethearts who married each other twice this summer — in each woman’s version of a dream wedding. Phil Bailey and Todd Cox also exchanged vows twice, first at their local church, and then, four years later, in Canada. Both couples consider themselves married in the traditional sense, though neither couple’s union is legal in Indiana. With propositions banning same-sex marriages passing in three states on Nov. 4, including California’s highly publicized Prop. 8, we met with two Indy couples to see what life is like in a state that doesn’t recognize their unions.
The two women met and fell in love as teenagers at their Southside Catholic high school.
But Anna Glowinski and Beth Droste, both now 24, were friends before they realized they had feelings for each other.
Being gay wasn’t something either had considered.
“I had a boyfriend at the time,” Beth said, then laughed.
“I never really thought about anything like that,” said Anna, now a residence hall director at the University of Indianapolis. “We kinda came out together. It just happened.”
Anna and Beth dated for a few months during their junior year at Roncalli High School, then broke up. Anna, who hadn’t dated anyone before Beth — and who was still unsure about her sexuality — needed some time.
“I went from being nothing to being gay,” she said. “There were just a lot of questions. It took me a lot longer to say, ’It’s OK, people support me.’ Beth was always OK with it.”
Beth was not only sure about her sexuality, she was sure she wanted to be with Anna. But she understood that Anna needed space.
“It was too much,” said Beth, a student at the Indiana Therapeutic Massage School. “We had come out and been a couple, all at the same time.”
But later that year, in 2003, Beth’s older sister died in a car accident. Anna was instantly by her side.
“She knew what I needed without me saying anything,” Beth said. “We started dating for the last time.”
They were married — twice — this past October.
Wedding No. 1: Oct. 10 at the Rathskeller in Downtown Indianapolis. They wore white wedding gowns, carried coordinating bouquets of Asiatic lilies and said their vows in front of 160 people. A family friend officiated.
“It was really her wedding,” Anna said, smirking in Beth’s direction. “I mean, I was there…”
Wedding No. 2: Oct. 14 in Cape Cod, Mass., a state that has allowed gay marriage since 2005. They were married, barefoot, in rolled-up khakis and sweaters, at sunset, on a windy day on the beach by a justice of the peace. The marriage is recognized as legal only in Massachusetts.
“Really, for us as a couple, it was the best of both worlds,” Anna said. “We actually got to have both our dream weddings within the same week.”
Beth grew up wanting the fairy-tale wedding and the intricate diamond ring to go with it. She’s chatty, confident, and loves to talk about her sexual orientation. Anna, who’s a little more reserved, wanted a small wedding and chose a simple yellow and white gold band.
“We’re as married as we can be,” Beth said.
Dream weddings (and a 10-day honeymoon in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico) aside, the women look forward to a time when they can legally marry in Indiana and carry the same rights as a heterosexual couple — tax breaks, work benefits and the authority to make medical decisions. They wonder if that might come later rather than sooner, after a number of same-sex marriage bans, including California’s highly publicized Proposition 8, passed in three states on Nov. 4.
“I thought California was more liberal than that,” Anna said. “I didn’t think it would get passed. I’m interested to see what will happen.”
They want equal rights and to be recognized as married by the country they live in, but Anna and Beth say the marriage bans are a small hindrance in the gay civil rights movement.
“It’s only getting better from here,” Beth said.
Vowing for change
Men vow to stay in Indiana to work for state recognition
Phil Bailey scrunches his nose as he shoots a glance over at his husband.
“Saying we’re ‘normal gay’ sounds pretty stupid,” he says. “Maybe ‘boring gay?’.”
Phil, 38, and Todd Cox, 41, are sitting in their living room at their home on 73rd Street with their two corgis, William and Harry.
They’re recounting the day they met (at a Downtown club in 1995), went out on their first date. (Todd did the asking out. Phil says he thought it was a group hangout, not a date. Todd shrugs and smiles coyly: “Everybody else was busy.”)
They were engaged in 1998 (again, Todd did the asking), had a holy union at Jesus Metropolitan Community Church in 1999 and then were married, legally, in Canada, in 2003. The holy union is a religious service and “the best you can do,” Todd says. “It’s what they recognize most for anniversaries.”
“We’re married,” said Todd, a pharmacy manager for Wishard Hospital. “It would be nice for it to be legal in Indiana, to have all those rights. But in the eyes of God and my family, we’re married.”
It wasn’t — and still isn’t — easy.
“(Planning the ceremony) took us a little longer, too,” Phil says, “because of …..”
“Bigots,” Todd interrupts.
Finding people to help with the wedding was the hardest task. One florist refused.
“I had someone say on the phone, ‘Well, my husband and I are Christian and we don’t believe in it,’” said Phil, education coordinator for JoAnn Fabrics & Crafts in Castleton. “And I was like, ’We’re Christian, too.’.”
The two men wonder about the future of gay marriage in Indiana, considering that Proposition 8, a ban on same-sex marriage, passed in California on Election Day.
A similar ban was introduced in Indiana last year, but was killed in the House.
“It gives some of the small-minded people in the House and the Senate incentive to push it again,” Phil said.
“By allowing a majority vote on a minority issue, you’re warping what a true democracy is,” Phil said.
Regardless of the ban passed in California and in other states, the election of Barack Obama has given them hope. Obama has said he doesn’t support same-sex marriage, but Todd and Phil think he had to take that position to win the election.
“You shouldn’t be able, in this country, to vote on civil rights,” Todd said. “Would you vote on the rights of a Jewish person? Are we the last group that it’s OK to discriminate against?”
Todd and Phil have discussed moving to a state where their marriage would be recognized, but decided to stay in the state they both grew up in.
“This is our city,” Todd said. “You stand and fight where you are. It has to stop somewhere.”
And it will, they say.
“The civil rights movement as a whole is moving forward,” Todd said. “When I graduated from high school, I couldn’t imagine this.”
It’s not moving quickly, but they both can imagine a time when they’ll be legally married in this country.
When Todd thinks about the possibility, he smiles hopefully.
“I’ll be very old,” he says.
What’s next for Hoosiers?
We spoke with some local community leaders to see what they think the future is for same-sex marriages in Indiana.
Tiffany Dow, board member, Indiana Black Pride
“(Indiana is) not at the forefront, by any means. I believe there will be (legal same-sex marriage) at some point, but I think the only way it’s going to happen in the state is if it’s a federal thing.
“It’s kind of scary to me that with Prop. 8 passing, a right that was already given to people was taken away, at the hands of the voters. Any time you have minorities’ rights dictated by the majority, that’s certainly a civil rights issue.”
Micah Clark, executive director, American Family Association of Indiana
“You’re going to see this issue come up again and again in Indiana. I think you’re going to see that the homosexual activists are going to push for marriage, and Indiana will someday have to defend its laws or allow same-sex marriages.
“We have a very high hurdle for changing the constitution. We’ve come close.
“It would easily pass, but the House leadership does not want that to happen and has blocked it on three or four occasions. If it were allowed, it would pass easily. What the voters would do with it, I don’t know.”
Todd Woodmansee, Indianapolis lawyer
“The passage of Prop. 8 sets us back as a community, as a nation. California is such a bellwether for social progression, and we’re not getting that right now after what happened.
“The problem we run into is that people confuse the legal issue and the religious issue. If they do have the same rights, then I don’t care what you call it.
I think it’s going to be (legal) within the next five to 10 years. The (U.S.) Supreme Court is going to have to address this issue because we have so many states now that either recognize it or explicitly defy it in their constitution.
“Marriage has been redefined for years and years and years. So many things have evolved. Society has to adapt and change, and the fear-mongering that is out there is what disturbs me the most.”
Patrick Mangan, executive director, Citizens for Community Values of Indiana
“The truth is that Hoosier families are not embracing this, and that Hoosier families are not hating anyone either. People who oppose this are lovingly opposing the homosexual agenda. Where we are as a nation, this is a very contentious issue, but those who support traditional marriage care about everyone involved, including those who struggle with same-sex attraction. What we would like to do as a society is to help those to overcome it, and to avoid those harms.”
Jeff Miner, senior pastor of Jesus Metropolitan Community Church, a gay/lesbian friendly congregation
“Indiana is the only state in the nation that has successfully defeated an attempt to amend its constitution to discriminate (against) gay people. That’s something we can be proud of. It seems obvious that the religious right will continue in its efforts. ….. Our concern is that we not go backwards and use the constitution as a club. It’s always sad when any state uses its constitution to discriminate.
“Just like some churches took the lead in the black civil rights movement, I think that some churches have a right to get involved and insist that government treat people equally.”
Where Indiana stands
Indiana law defines marriage as being only between a man and a woman.
There’s no amendment in the state’s constitution banning same-sex marriage. A proposal to amend the constitution has been pushed in years past, as opponents of gay marriage fear Indiana’s judges could strike down the law. Such a ban failed to pass out of the General Assembly in 2007 and again this year, which means the lengthy process to amend the state constitution would have to start from scratch in 2009. That’s unlikely to happen.
Democratic House Speaker B. Patrick Bauer has not shown a willingness to allow a floor vote. A constitutional amendment requires passage by two separately elected legislatures, followed by the approval of voters in a general election.
If a constitutional amendment were to pass in 2009 or 2010, it would have to be approved by the General Assembly again in 2011 or 2012 before voters would have the chance to vote on the measure in the 2012 general election.
— The Indianapolis Star
Across the nation
Thirty states have passed constitutional bans on same-sex marriage, including the most recent ones voted in on Nov. 4: California, Arizona and Florida.
California, which has been viewed as a flagship for gay civil rights issues, received a lot of publicity when its ban, Proposition 8, was passed. The move could mean Indiana, as well as other states, might follow its lead or continue to move toward wider rights for gays and lesbians.
prop 8, gay marriage, Proposition 8, marriage, weddings, rights, Equal Rights, same-sex marriage, California
I really don’t think getting married is the real fight, I think the fight is that gay couples can’t be covered by each others’ insurance on the job. That becomes a business decision. They pay the carrier less money for you as an individual than they would if you were a couple. Insurance lobbyist are showing these figures to the lawmakers, and making a good case against including couples of the same sex. Of course there are 2 or 3 companies that do cover same-sex couples,(Lilly is one), but the majority don’t care to increase their costs in this manner.
joe.shearer : RE: RE: Hoosiers discuss Prop. 8 and their experiences with gay marriage More..
That’s certainly a practical concern for gay couples, but I have a more philosophical objection to it as well. Some people have said “well, if we can make it exactly the same as being married, then you should be happy.” My objection to that is that is tantamount to trying to make it “separate but equal.” I object to the rationale that they need some sort of other terminology or special program or whatever to make things equal when they should just be equal.
If it’s the exact same thing, why can’t it just be the same thing?
We need to eliminate 99% of the laws we have in this country. The only real law you need is “Do no harm to others.” Anything you do that doesn’t harm other people should be perfectly legal.
That could definitely be an influential factor, but there are in fact quite a few companies with gay-friendly beneficial policies and the list continues to grow. Apple, AT&T, Adobe, Charles Schwab , Cisco, Coca-Cola, Coors, Dell, Eli Lilly, Google, IBM, Merrill Lynch, Nike, Pfizer, and Viacom are some examples. More can be found here:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57683I think the real point is just look at Anna Glowinski and Beth Droste’s picture look how happy and beautiful they are together. I’d be lucky enough to find a man that loves me as much as these two women love each other!
I think one day future Hoosiers are going to look back at the same sex marriage controversy and wonder why their ancestors were so stupid. Kind of like how we look back at slavery.
Mazel-Tov Anna and Beth!! You too Todd and Phil! I wish you the best of luck!
A gay marriage update as of this morning:
Unanimous ruling: Iowa marriage no longer limited to one man, one woman:
Kind of surprising that this passes in Iowa, yet California shoots it down.
KeiannaRae : RE: Hoosiers discuss Prop. 8 and their experiences with gay marriage More..
I can’t honestly see why anyone would care about gay marriage in this day and age. With the exception of the insurance/business expense factor mentioned above, which is going to be a HELL of a battle, I can’t understand the issue. Whose getting hurt?




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